The Salt Sessions

Transcript

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0:10
Hi, a warm welcome back to the Salt Sessions.

0:13
I'm Bev Salt, and today it's an absolute pleasure to welcome Lizzie Butler as my guest.

0:20
Lizzie, do you want to introduce yourself to our listeners?

0:23
Yes, thank you, Bev.

0:25
Hi, everyone.

0:26
I'm Lizzie Butler.

0:27
I'm a communications trainer, a sales coach and an author.

0:32
I'll have a book published in October this year called, "It's Never Only Business."

0:37
I'm also a creator of a communication model called Gwyn, which stands for Getting What You Need.

0:45
And I'm also a wife, a mum to three amazing children and a passionate learner.

0:50
I've been learning communication skills intensely for the last decade and I share these skills with my clients.

0:57
Thank you.

0:58
Lizzie and I are both members of the Nottingham City Business Club, so that's how we connected through that network.

1:05
What I want to talk about today is around buying behaviour.

1:09
So I recently bought an EV and my husband spent days researching what car would be right for our family.

1:19
So he looked at battery range, safety features and everything and then shortlisted a few and then we went to the dealers and just like that I saw a car.

1:30
I was like, oh, I love the colour and the look of it.

1:33
Let's go for that one.

1:34
You know, everything was all out the window.

1:37
All his research, just because I made that decision, unlike the look of it.

1:42
And obviously we looked at all the specs afterwards and backed it up with logic.

1:47
It got me thinking how buying decisions are mainly emotionally driven.

1:52
And I think this applies both in the consumer, B2C as well as B2B Context.

1:58
And I think it might surprise people, Lizzie, but I've recently read that B2B is actually more emotional than B2C because buying behaviour is driven very much by risk, reputation and career progression.

2:12
And B2B, people don't want to be the person that makes the wrong decision in front of their boss.

2:18
So it's hugely important for them to choose the right vendor based on reputation, recommendations and then those support guarantees.

2:27
And then though that buyers justify logic afterwards.

2:31
But the initial attraction, trust and confidence are all built on emotions.

2:37
So, Lizzie, most B2B buyers like to think they make decisions logically.

2:43
In your experience, how much of that is true?

2:46
Thank you.

2:47
I hope.

2:47
I hope you're still in love in the car as well.

2:48
Bev.

2:51
OK, so here's the thing about communication.

2:55
And this is one of the most important points about all forms of communication.

3:00
And, and it relates to B2C and it relates to B2B.

3:03
And as you said, they're like, you know, there can be a lot of pressure to make the right decisions certainly in B2B and where there's big budgets involved as well.

3:13
OK.

3:13
But here's the most important point.

3:15
And communication is that we're emotional first, we're emotional first, second and third.

3:23
We feel before we think.

3:27
And it's to do with this 3 lbs of wonderfulness here.

3:29
I don't know, I'm pointing Bev.

3:31
We all know where our brains are.

3:33
It's it's to do with our brains and it's to do with how our brains are wired.

3:36
Now, the part of our brains that are particularly relevant in creating emotion is a limbic system and it's made-up of the hippocampus, the Hypothalamus and the amygdala.

3:46
And the research shows that the amygdala will trigger an emotional response far more quickly than our conscious mind will realise.

3:56
Now I'm not a scientist, I'm not a psychologist, OK?

4:01
I have been training for over a decade learning high intensity communication skills.

4:07
And if you do want to learn more about it, I will just share.

4:10
There's a book here which is called 'The Brain Always Wins'.

4:14
This is by Dr John Sullivan and Chris Parker and they explain all about how the brain works and how we are emotional.

4:20
First, we feel before we think.

4:24
And the reason we do that is because our brain is predicting all of the time, OK?

4:28
It's wired for survival.

4:30
It's wired to protect us.

4:32
So so it's asking us, can I relax?

4:35
Can I focus and learn?

4:36
Do I like this person?

4:39
Do I trust this person?

4:41
They're messages from the brain to ourselves, which gives an indication of the situation or the context that we're working in.

4:50
So every time, yes, we are emotional first, We feel before we think.

4:56
And with that in mind, we must remember that we will make decisions emotionally just like you did Beth with a car.

5:05
And then our conscious mind will quickly kick in and we'll back it up with logical decisions.

5:10
All the work that that your husband did, we'll back it up with that, OK.

5:15
You know, is it the right spec?

5:17
Is it the right performance?

5:18
Is it going to give us exactly what we need for our family?

5:21
All of those logical decisions will then come into play originally, instantaneously.

5:28
We're emotional first.

5:30
The reason why, if you think about it, why I'm here sitting with you now is because of Nottingham City Business Club.

5:37
And more importantly is because of the relationship that you have with Deborah Bond and the relationship that I have with Deborah Bond.

5:45
Because before this, you and I didn't know each other, not until today, not until literally 19 minutes ago.

5:51
But the reason why you've asked me to come on is because Deborah recommended me.

5:56
And the reason why I've come on is because Deborah recommended you because you like Deborah and I like Deborah and she likes us.

6:04
And that's the emotion involved there, OK?

6:07
And that's why we're sitting here today.

6:10
So yes, absolutely.

6:11
We're emotional first.

6:12
We feel before we think, and that's a big thing for anyone working in sales and business development wanting to sell, isn't it because people could be too focused on a specific product and give you all the technical details without thinking?

6:30
I need to emotionally connect with my audience first before I go into all the details.

6:38
Lizzie, I had a look at your website and you actually run a workshop on selling using the six principles of influence, which I think are all fascinating.

6:47
By the way.

6:48
How do these principles tap into the emotional side of B2B buyer?

6:53
So these principles, I won't go through everyone, I'll just select a couple of them.

6:57
OK, so these are according to Professor Cialdini.

7:00
So if you wanted to learn more about the six weapons of influence, then go read Professor Cialdini and you can read all about it in great detail, OK.

7:08
But what he suggests is that these six weapons of influence and these help us to connect better with people just in general, whether you're buying or whether you're selling.

7:18
So the first principle is about creating likeness.

7:22
OK, now we're not talking about a personal likeness.

7:25
It could be a professional likeness.

7:27
Likeness could also be a respect, but the research shows, and you'll hear me saying that quite a lot, is that the more we like someone or the more they like us, the more likely we are able to influence them as we intend to.

7:42
If you think about whether you've ever bought a product from someone who you don't like, I don't know whether you have done that, Bev.

7:51
No, it's unlikely.

7:53
Now, some people, when I've asked that question said, yeah, you know what, Lizzie?

7:56
I have.

7:57
Yeah.

7:58
And and they have, The thing is, is that the experience that they will have had and the experience that they associate with the purchase of that product is far more likely to be a negative one than a positive one. OK?

8:12
They've got the product.

8:14
So the chances therefore of them repeat business or going back to that person are far more unlikely versus when we like someone, we're not just buying the product from the person, we're buying into them and they're matching us.

8:29
They're matching what we like.

8:31
They're understanding our needs, wants and likes what's important to us.

8:35
And yeah, they'll also be doing a lot of other things as well, but they're matching us on our common ground.

8:40
So likeness is really important.

8:43
When I worked before setting up on my own, I remember I used to do a lot of meet the buyer events and I'd go down to these meet the buyer events.

8:52
And my job there, it was for a brilliant company called Smith of Derby and their Clockmakers.

8:58
And just to give you a little bit of background, so the clocks that they would create, design and install, I'm talking about the big stuff, the big pieces.

9:06
So, so Pancras International, the clock on the facade of the station that's created and manufactured by Smith of Derby.

9:13
So that type of work.

9:15
And my job was to go and speak with architects to persuade them, because selling of course, is persuasion to be able to put a clock on the drawing.

9:27
So it might be for a hospital, it might be for a railway station, it might be for a council building, you know, within the UK and overseas.

9:34
So I'd go to these Meet the buyer events and I'd meet with everyone and I'd come back to the office and Jim, my director, would say, so Lizzie, what have you got for me?

9:44
And I would say I don't have anything for you yet, Jim.

9:47
OK.

9:47
And he'd look at me a little bit like a bit odd, OK.

9:50
And I said, but when I call them and I will call them, they will all take my call because I've spent the time creating likeness.

10:00
And as salespeople, what we can do is that we can forget that.

10:04
We can be too busy working our schedule rather than paying attention to just creating likeness.

10:13
Because the more someone likes us, the more likely down the road, further down the process, we're going to be able to influence them as we intend to and leave them to where we need them to be.

10:27
OK, All OK.

10:28
So how, how can we get someone to like us?

10:31
Lizzie, are there any tricks by matching them?

10:35
OK, Now, when I say about matching, I don't mean, you know, obviously, like, I've got my leg crossed, so you cross your leg.

10:41
You know, we need to be more subtle than that.

10:44
But this is very much at a basic level as well.

10:46
It's all really important.

10:48
The sort of body language and gestures.

10:50
We can match those.

10:52
We can also match their communication style as well.

10:56
And I've done quite a bit of work with the NLP as well.

11:00
And in terms of matching how somebody communicates the language that they choose, do they select more kinesthetic language, more visual, more auditory language?

11:09
And if they do, which order did they sequence it in?

11:12
Because when I communicate that with them, I'm going to select the words and I'm going to match it right back to them in the order and sequence that they communicate with me, OK?

11:23
I've helped people, senior level people become partners of companies and they've gone for the interview and the emotional aspect for them is they thought, oh, I've not got all the right qualifications.

11:34
So I've come through a different route to this and everyone else has got the qualification and I haven't, OK.

11:40
The thing is, at that stage when you get to that senior level, for me it doesn't really matter if you have the right qualifications or not.

11:46
It's about the work that you've done and the word that you can show that you're capable of as well.

11:52
So I, I remember working with a particular lady and she had the interview coming up and I said, are you doing a presentation?

11:59
And she says, no, they haven't asked for presentation.

12:01
And I said, they will do, they'll ask you for one.

12:05
And there's a phrase I live by.

12:06
It's called, it starts before it starts.

12:09
OK, so I said, so we're going to start the presentation.

12:12
I says now I need to see the pictures of the four people who are going to be interviewing you.

12:15
She sent over the four people and then I can identify who will be the decision maker.

12:20
Now, it wasn't the managing director, it was one of the senior partners and the two other people I would say are throwing in for good measure if you like.

12:29
Yet for us, we were going to match the language and the key phrases of the other senior partner because it was him who was going to give the nod whether she would get it or not.

12:39
Right?

12:40
When I looked at sort of his communication, obviously you can access like LinkedIn and other articles and things that that people have written, it was very clear to me that this was a man who played to win, OK?

12:51
He was very much focused on the team and he played to win.

12:54
So in no place at all did we use the word but because but can well, nothing positive comes out from a but OK, which would give him the opportunity then asking the awkward question for my clients.

13:08
Also, everything that we had was about how my client would make more money than any other person that they would interview.

13:15
OK, because that's what was important to him.

13:18
So that's how we match.

13:20
So it was about him liking my client, but very basic is a little bit more than that, more than anyone else who was going to come into that interview.

13:31
When she got the job and I knew she'd get the job, the feedback she got was I don't know what it was about you.

13:38
I just couldn't get you out of my head.

13:40
That's interesting.

13:41
So apart from likeness, would you say there are any other key principles that really matter?

13:46
Yes.

13:47
OK.

13:47
So the next one that I talk about is authority, OK.

13:51
And we must keep our authority when we're communicating.

13:54
So we want to create likeness and we want to keep authority as well.

14:00
OK, Now when I have seen some salespeople that they create too much likeness and they become too much like the prospect or their clients friend if you like.

14:13
Now this can be a little bit dangerous because at this point we can risk our authority.

14:18
Okay, so it's about, it's about a balancing act.

14:21
You know, it's not about likeness, like, oh, we all want to go down the pub with this person.

14:25
Do you know what I mean?

14:25
Yes, We need to be able to create the authority so that the person that we're communicating with goes, oh, you know what?

14:31
Yeah, they really know what they're talking about.

14:33
They're going to be able to deliver for me on this.

14:36
It helps to move us towards trust, OK, which is a big ask.

14:41
Trust is a big ask, but it helps us to move towards trust.

14:47
So keeping your authority, authority as well is really essential.

14:51
And certainly towards the end of the deal, like when we're starting to close here is when you start to get from like big picture down into what I call nitty gritty.

15:01
And you can have questions there obviously, about the fee, about costs, which can be for some people, quite awkward questions.

15:09
And that we must keep our authority so that we can remind them of the benefits and the solutions that it's providing to them and also be very, very clear in terms of what we will provide as well.

15:21
I talk about like words to avoid and words to use.

15:24
And this links in with authority.

15:27
Now for me, there's 4 words here, yes.

15:30
And and go together beautifully.

15:32
And particularly when we're looking to really sort of ramp home the benefits and remind the person of why this product or service will be really useful for them.

15:43
And no, and because are also really useful, particularly when somebody might ask us what can it do this, you know, and it can't.

15:52
No, because or particularly when someone might might be trying to ask, you know, for more of a saving in terms of the cost.

16:00
No, because and if you've done enough work prior, creating the likeness of being committed, being consistent, basically saying what you do and doing what you say, you can have these conversations here and keeping your authority and the tone in your voice as well the same.

16:21
Because of course, that's what we hear.

16:23
We do hear the words.

16:24
It's the sound that we hear.

16:27
It's that sound that can really help us to be able to close the sale.

16:32
So for me, in terms of the weapons of influence, likeness and authority are the two key ones for me.

16:43
There's also, I've mentioned commitments and consistency and I mean, you know, this bad like I do, it is about being consistent.

16:51
You want to avoid creating any doubt in someone's mind at all costs, and particularly with what I call proper selling on a transactional level where I'm talking about new business.

17:04
So rather than because business growth is great, it's much easier than persuading somebody to do something that they hadn't considered before.

17:11
We really have to be committed.

17:13
We really have to show that consistency there.

17:16
There's also scarcity.

17:17
So obviously it's the product or service that isn't available, you know, freely social proof, of course, you know, getting others to say like how great you are.

17:27
And then finally, reciprocity.

17:29
So if you do something for someone else, they're more likely to do something for you.

17:33
Those are all driven around emotional behaviour.

17:37
They all happen to be emotions.

17:39
We're all emotional first.

17:40
So we have to learn how to manage our own emotions and we have to learn how to manage the emotion of others so that when we do come to close the sale, we close it.

17:52
And when we do come to buy a product, we buy it on the terms that we want to buy it on.

18:01
Yes, yeah, yes and no, because language hugely important.

18:08
What are the most powerful phrases or words that a salesperson could use that could influence a deal?

18:16
Well, I think those those are probably the main ones for me, but I'm going to go off and then I'll come back there.

18:22
So for me, it's about recognising needs, wants and likes, the challenges, any doubts, what they already know about you.

18:31
So what they don't know, what they do know, I'm going to meet somewhere in the middle.

18:35
And then I'm going to then relate everything back in terms of the benefits, the features, everything back to that challenge or the problem that they might have.

18:45
And I'm going to do that using yes and yes.

18:49
And this will also help you do this.

18:52
And you mentioned to me, I think it was about, I think it was about 3 weeks ago when we got together that this was a real issue for you.

19:00
Well, this will also help with that and this and that.

19:05
OK.

19:06
So yes, and is probably probably my favourite and I think when it comes to language, verbal isn't the only form of language, is it Lizzie?

19:18
So I think this leads us nicely to body language.

19:22
Are there any body language signals that we should be using to try and help people like us more, if that's possible?

19:31
You mentioned matching, do you think that helps?

19:35
Yes, absolutely.

19:36
It is about matching the other person.

19:38
So as we touched on earlier, on a basic level, if somebody's sitting opposite you and they might have their arms folded, then you might cross your legs.

19:46
It's doing it in a very subtle way.

19:49
If somebody who you might be standing up facing and you might notice that they always look over there or something or over there, then I'm also going to look to that point as well.

19:58
Another tip that I've been taught is that when I'm talking to somebody, so Bev, if you and I were in a room now, I would be looking just over your right hand shoulder, OK?

20:09
So I would actually, if I look at this now, I'd be looking at the door.

20:12
That's what I'm focusing on, OK, But that allows me to put a frame around you because I look at you and I try to look into your eyes directly.

20:22
I'm going to be like that and I'm going to miss what's happening with your body.

20:25
I'm going to look over your shoulder instead because that allows me to put a frame around you and I can see all of you then, OK, Because we're sharing all of the time.

20:37
And absolutely, as you say, it's not always verbally.

20:41
When I first started out, I once worked for a client and he would, he would meet with the team and he would tell the team what he wanted to happen, OK?

20:52
And they would go away and he would do what he told them to do because that's what they'd heard him say.

20:58
Now, for me, it was very clear that what he said and what he said clashed, right?

21:07
So the team would go away and do what he said, and then he'd get really frustrated with them, OK?

21:14
Because they hadn't.

21:15
Because they hadn't done what he'd asked them to do.

21:18
They'd done exactly what he'd asked them to do.

21:21
OK, But his body language had said something else.

21:25
So after this had happened, just on one occasion, the next meeting that we had, I just changed it up a little bit.

21:30
And at the end I said, OK, so just so we're all clear on this, just so that we can all be absolutely clear, you want us to go away and do this, this and this, and then we'll come back and we'll feedback to you at different points to check that you're you're OK with that or whatever it might have been.

21:45
OK.

21:46
And he goes, Lizzie, that's exactly what I want.

21:48
OK, but he didn't say that.

21:51
Yeah, his body language told me that.

21:55
OK, but if I was looking straight at him, I'm less likely to be able to read everything that I need to read.

22:02
OK.

22:03
So when I'm operating as well, so I use the word operating, I'm operating from the back of my head here, OK.

22:14
It was something that's like a personal issue.

22:15
It might be somebody, I don't know, maybe they've gone through a divorce or something like that and they're, you know that you know that they're very upset.

22:23
I'm going to imagine I'm going to be operating from way back here because I need to be able to help them and give them what they need.

22:30
They don't need me getting emotional.

22:32
And also I've got enough stuff going on in my life.

22:34
I don't need another person's emotion as well.

22:38
OK.

22:40
Are there any common mistakes that you see people make when they're trying to win a deal, but they're actually losing it emotionally?

22:49
Oh, yes, definitely.

22:52
They go too fast.

22:55
They go at their pace, not at the client's pace.

22:59
And what happens is they were just matching them and then they lose it.

23:04
You have to protect that likeness at all costs, OK.

23:07
Because as soon as what, you know, we touched on doubt earlier, and as soon as somebody might start feeling like they're being hurried along, you know, they're just not ready.

23:15
They want to buy this, whatever it might be, but they're just not ready yet.

23:20
The person who's doing the persuading, his or her communication hasn't covered everything off yet.

23:26
So it's not that they don't want to say yes, they're not able to say yes yet.

23:31
Yes.

23:33
And, and it's because the person has forgotten that selling is persuasion.

23:39
And you're not persuading yourself because you're already bought in.

23:43
You're selling to the other person.

23:44
You're persuading them to do something.

23:47
And in that case, we need to work on their process.

23:51
Yeah, their timings.

23:53
So you could ask someone to make decisions very quickly, but their client or prospects might make decisions quite slowly, might need a lot of evidence.

24:01
And that's the person we need to persuade.

24:03
Yes.

24:04
So we have to match.

24:04
And what happens is, is that the person who's doing the selling, our emotions get in the way.

24:11
Interestingly, I bought a car was about a year ago and I and I loved being the buying buff.

24:15
It wasn't in terms of because I had said yes, I was buying it, but it got to the point when they start lining aftercare, do you want?

24:23
Oh yes, warranty?

24:26
And yeah.

24:27
And at that point the sale just started to go a little bit S for me.

24:32
It's been really good up to that point.

24:34
And this is the thing, it's always at the ending that it can go South.

24:40
And that's what you've really got to keep your emotional management in check.

24:44
And you've got to remember that even though they've said yes, you know, a sales, not a sale until it's signed and done and nothing was signed and done at this stage.

24:53
I remember also at that point, I don't know whether you had this bed.

24:55
It'd be interesting to know at that point they, you know, they want to charge you for petrol, which is just absolutely ridiculous to me.

25:04
How on earth can you drive the car off the vocal?

25:06
But I'm still in my role here.

25:08
So then I go back and say it's like booking an international flight and I've just got to the check in desk and now you're asking me to pay for fuel to put in the plane.

25:18
It's not going to happen.

25:20
So I'm going to save my role and I'm going to be adamant I'm not doing that.

25:24
If you want to sell me this for this car worth quite a few thousands, you're going to do that and I'm going to stay in my role.

25:31
And that's, and that's a negotiation that I'm going to take on.

25:35
And then the salesperson, though, at first he wasn't happy to do that because he's not had somebody challenge him in that way before.

25:42
Possibly, I don't know.

25:44
He might have been having a bad day.

25:45
I don't know.

25:46
But the point is, you got a sale now that's on the rocks.

25:49
Yeah, I'll always be willing to walk away, but I never want to.

25:54
I want to buy the thing that it is I want to buy.

25:56
But that's where the salesperson there, I'm testing is metal.

26:00
I'm testing is emotional management and whether he'll continue to match me and whether he'll continue to remember that selling is persuasion and the deal isn't done yet.

26:11
Yes.

26:12
Let me tell you a story, Lizzie.

26:14
So when I worked as an employee, I once invited a few agencies to come and pitch to us, and the MD was also in the room with me.

26:25
One agency came in, they had obviously done a lot of preparation.

26:29
They prepared this deck and it was about 60 minutes.

26:34
I'm marketing, so I understand everything.

26:36
The MD isn't, It's not his area of expertise.

26:40
And during the presentation, you can just see his body language.

26:45
He was just getting really bored, starts fidgeting, looking at the phone.

26:50
And what got me was the agency who was delivering the presentation, why they just didn't end it.

26:58
You can see in the body language that the MD just wasn't interested.

27:04
And at one stage he actually walked out because he couldn't listen to the whole thing.

27:08
But why the agency just didn't stop and think, use a bit of emotional intelligence.

27:14
This isn't working.

27:15
Why that just abandoned this 100%.

27:17
They didn't research their audience, did they?

27:20
You know, no.

27:21
And also that it sounds like an iPad situation similar to that where they're they're running their own process.

27:27
They've come in to do a presentation and take you through and that's what they're gonna do.

27:32
They're not going to read you.

27:34
They're not going to spot him fidgeting around.

27:36
I mean, the fact he walked out, you can't really get a bigger sign than that, can you?

27:40
But they're like, no, I've come in to do this job.

27:42
So that's what I'm going to do.

27:44
You know, that's, that is what I would call a pure lack of self-awareness.

27:49
It puts selling in a bad light.

27:51
That does, when you're persuading somebody to do something, you want to forget yourself, forget everything there is to do with yourself and do it their way.

28:00
And when I mean do it their way, I mean match them, match their communication style.

28:05
The MD as well.

28:06
I mean, I'm, I'm generalising here and obviously I don't know this particular person, but in my experience, what I found is the MD, they want the sea headings and they want the high level.

28:17
This is what it's going to do.

28:19
Boom, That's it.

28:21
You know, they don't want detail, they don't need it.

28:23
That's that's why you were there.

28:24
But that would have been your role and your job, just like it would have been my role and my job if it was the other way around in selling.

28:30
It's a real lack of awareness for a person or people to come in and and present in that way.

28:38
And do you think there was anything they could have done to rectify it?

28:43
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

28:46
I had someone once, it was somebody I did some work with afterwards and he'd gone and met with an MD and he was the same.

28:52
He'd gone in to do a presentation and he was really proud because he managed to get this appointment with his MD and the MD had said, yeah, come in at whatever time and he'd gone in.

29:01
We're never completely in control of any form of communication because things can happen in other people's lives.

29:07
So just because you got a meeting down at Monday at 10:00 doesn't mean Monday at 10:00 will be all right for that person in four weeks time because there's other things going on in our lives.

29:18
OK.

29:18
But the chapter I was working with, he hadn't checked whether it was still OK with him.

29:23
And he'd just done this huge presentation.

29:25
I think it was like 72 pages long and he rocked up at the MD and the MD had said, Jack, I've only got 10 minutes.

29:34
So what you would have done is firstly thank him for his 10 minutes and use that time really wisely.

29:43
And when I say that given that this like Jack hadn't met this MD properly before, you're just going to create likeness, then that's all you're going to do in that meeting.

29:52
And that's going to be your main process outcome because basically what you have prepared is not going to wash.

29:58
So you're going to use it just to create lights.

30:00
Look, we've only got 10 minutes.

30:01
Should we just go grab a coffee?

30:03
Let me get your coffee for 10 minutes.

30:05
And you're going to just create likeness.

30:06
So when you go back, he's more likely to be able to give you some time.

30:10
OK, Jack didn't do that.

30:12
Jack sat him down and the MD could see 72 slides on his presentation and it went OK.

30:20
And the MD naturals just like I've not got the time.

30:23
OK, so you could say, and I think a lot of people then don't go back.

30:27
I have a saying as well.

30:28
You've got to take yourself on.

30:30
That's your error.

30:31
That's your communication error.

30:32
You've got to take yourself on.

30:34
So you go back.

30:35
OK.

30:36
Yeah.

30:36
And you go back and you basically admit it and you go, look, I'm really sorry.

30:42
I don't know why I thought I could go through a 72 page presentation with the 10 minutes.

30:47
I'm really sorry.

30:47
Will you see me again?

30:49
And I promise you it'll be completely different in a really good way.

30:54
Yeah.

30:55
At that point, the MD or whoever it is you're communicating with of course has the opportunity to go.

31:01
No, no, no, I don't want to see you.

31:03
No.

31:04
Goodbye.

31:05
In my experience, they don't tend to.

31:08
Yes.

31:09
And it's indeed probably don't want to work with them anyway.

31:12
Yeah, Yeah.

31:13
We can always get back.

31:14
And then it's.

31:15
And then you go back and you change your communication and you turn these up and shut this off.

31:23
Yes.

31:24
OK.

31:24
So when it comes to B to B, there's not just one decision maker.

31:28
There's normally multiple people in the decision making process.

31:32
Everyone has different priorities and motivations.

31:36
Is it possible to influence this whole unit as a salesperson?

31:40
Yes, absolutely it is.

31:42
Yeah.

31:43
The first thing that you need to do is set your time frame and you need to understand exactly what your outcome is.

31:51
And there might be 1 big outcome, obviously the goal outcome.

31:54
And then there's going to be lots and lots of little process outcomes.

31:58
And all those process outcomes are literally yeses, OK?

32:02
You just get buying from different people.

32:05
And we know that the more times people say little yeses in terms of I'm always looking for patterns of agreement, when I've got enough of those, then I'm going to ask for the big yes, whatever that might be.

32:15
OK.

32:16
We're also going to use multi sensory language because we all communicate differently.

32:22
OK, I mentioned like some of us, we might use more kinesthetic words in certain settings.

32:27
We might take lots of pauses.

32:30
We might really like sort of think back and consider about and they might talk about feelings more.

32:36
And then we might have more visual people.

32:39
So for those people, I'm going to always make sure that I've got something visual to show them because that's how they respond best.

32:46
Yes, but I'm only going to know this by spending time with them and by listening to them, OK, And like what we're talking about earlier and checking for their body language.

32:58
What do they like?

32:59
What, what, what?

32:59
Oh, they didn't like that.

33:00
Well, I'm going this way now, but 100% you can.

33:04
You can affect change in a big group.

33:06
It can take time and you have to pick off your outcomes.

33:11
Which one are you going to prioritise first?

33:14
OK, out of what they need and what they've asked for, which one are you going to prioritise first?

33:19
Which one is going to deliver most for us?

33:23
And then I'm going to go the next one.

33:25
And I might also, in fact, I probably in a lot of cases, not all cases, but I'm going to by listening and spending time, I'm going to identify if there's any key influences in the group, OK, where people, if he or she thinks or says a certain thing, then a couple of others are more likely to follow, right?

33:47
And then I'm going to focus more on my language with that person, but still using multi sensory language so that don't leave anyone out because we've all got to feel, because we're all emotional first.

33:57
We're all on the same page.

33:58
We're all in this together, which we are, OK.

34:02
It's about how we influence of course influences the effect we have on others and the effect they have on us.

34:10
So whilst I'm listening, of course they're influencing me and of course I'm always very aware that if I'm in the room I'm influencing that.

34:15
And of course things can influence people as well.

34:17
It doesn't have to just be people.

34:18
Yeah, 100% we can do that, but we have to be smart about how we go about it and we have to be selective and create well formed outcomes.

34:29
OK, Yeah, good advice there Lizzie.

34:32
So for a small business owner then listening to this, what's the one thing that they could do differently tomorrow to build more emotional connection with their prospects?

34:43
Well, there's there's two questions that I asked myself before any communication.

34:50
And the first one is how do I want them to feel about me, right.

34:57
Because we're all emotional first, we feel or we think.

35:00
Whether we're consciously aware of it is a different thing.

35:04
But going back to the beginning, the research and all the research shows that we trigger an emotional response faster than our conscious mind will realise we feel before we think.

35:15
So I need to be able to create that likeness so that they're going to feel in a more positive way about me than they did before.

35:25
OK, yes, so that's the first one.

35:27
How do I want them to feel about me?

35:29
And the second question is what do I want them to think, say and do as a result of our interaction?

35:38
Because that's going to link in with my process outcome.

35:40
Where am I actually wanting to lead them to no and avoid going too quick?

35:48
Yes, Selling for me is one of the most enjoyable experiences ever when it's done well.

35:58
Take your time, you know, don't try and rush it and keep keep your emotions in check.

36:08
But they're the two questions.

36:10
How do I want them to feel about me, the messenger?

36:14
And what do I want them to think, say and do about our interaction or about the products and service?

36:20
Because they've got they like the messenger more, they're more likely to at least be interested and the product or service that I'm going to share with them.

36:32
Do you think most people consider Lizzie that first question when they go into a sales picture?

36:38
We don't.

36:40
No, I don't at all.

36:41
No, we don't train to.

36:44
I've never been on any training whereby we are taught this.

36:49
OK.

36:50
I train twice a month and have done except train for every decade with a leading communications authority.

36:56
I have never ever been on a training such as this.

36:59
It starts before it starts.

37:01
Most people we think it starts when we're in the room with them.

37:05
Like the people who pitched for you in the MD that time.

37:08
And then it started to went in the room for me.

37:12
It starts way before I've even got in the room.

37:16
You know, people might say to me, sometimes they'll say, yeah, Lizzie, I can't believe you've done this work for us.

37:20
We've not even said yes.

37:21
Yeah.

37:22
And I go and I say to my and I and I don't, I don't.

37:25
I go, oh, no, it's it's all good.

37:27
No, we're all good.

37:29
And it's because they've already said yes, but not verbally.

37:34
Yes.

37:35
Interesting.

37:37
Wow, I found our talk really fascinating.

37:40
So can I ask you one bonus question where I ask all my guests at the end?

37:45
Lizzie, what's the piece of advice that you come back to when things get tough, when things get tough to look after yourself?

37:56
We're emotional first.

37:57
I must have said that we are, and it's our emotions that rule the show, OK?

38:07
You know yourself if you're having a bad day, if you're not in the right frame of mind, and if you've got to go do that important meeting, you know you can't.

38:17
You can't rearrange it.

38:18
You can't change it.

38:22
Then you've got to know how to get into the most appropriate emotional state to be able to do that because influence is inevitable and we will influence always.

38:35
Yet it's about influencing, influencing positively and as we intend to.

38:40
So we create that likeness so we can match, so we can lead them to where we need them to be.

38:44
So look after yourself.

38:47
There's lots of strategies that I share about being able to manage your emotions and lots of strategies from the Brain always Wins book as well.

38:56
And it could also be you enjoy cycling, get out in your back, you enjoy going to the gym, go gym.

39:01
If you enjoy walking, go walking.

39:02
You enjoy singing, go singing because when we're doing those things, we're not thinking about anything else.

39:07
It's really, really good for us.

39:09
So avoid underestimating your emotional state because it will, it controls the shame.

39:16
And when you learn how to manage that and particularly for, you know, maybe intense or maybe awkward or high negotiation context, you've got to be in control.

39:30
Yes, it enables you to keep that authority and absolutely it enables to get what you need.

39:38
Great.

39:39
Well, Lizzie, thank you so much.

39:41
I really felt like I've learned so much.

39:44
There's so, so many things to unpick and certainly things that I'm going to walk away and think about when I do my next pitch for new clients.

39:54
So thank you very much.

39:56
If people wanted more information from you, how can they contact you Lizzie?

40:00
OK, so LinkedIn is is the best form of contact.

40:05
So it's Lizzie Butler and it's the Lizzie Butler for the company.

40:09
I have my website aswelllizziebutler.co.uk.

40:11
I am in the throes of updating that at the moment.

40:14
And then I also just a little plug, this is my first preview for my book.

40:19
It just arrived from a publisher last week, so I'm just in the middle of proofing it again.

40:26
And that will be published in October this year.

40:30
Oh, wow, that is really exciting.

40:32
Did you put the training manual in a in a pet?

40:35
You can see it's.

40:36
It's not a novel, Bev.

40:37
It's a practical book.

40:40
Really amazing.

40:42
Yeah.

40:42
Come and get a signed copy from you, Nick.

40:45
Nottingham to see Business Club when it's launched.

40:49
Thanks very much for having me on.

40:51
I really appreciate it.

40:53
Thank you, Lizzie.

40:55
Bye.

40:55
Bye.

40:55
Thanks.

40:56
Bye.