The Salt Sessions

Transcript

0:10
Hi, I'm Bev Salt, the host of the Salt sessions.

0:14
And today we'll be joined by Samantha Harman and we're discussing wardrobe from a business perspective and how to use your wardrobe to build your personal brand.

0:26
Can I just say, Samantha, if I wasn't working in marketing, you actually have my dream job.

0:32
So without further ado, can you introduce yourself to our listeners?

0:38
I love the fact that this is your dream job.

0:41
For a long time, it was very much my dream job too.

0:44
And I thought that's, that's silly.

0:47
It sounds like a silly thing to do.

0:49
It couldn't possibly be a real business.

0:52
And then during the pandemic, I thought, why not just give it a go?

0:55
So I was a newspaper editor for a very long time.

0:58
That is a very male dominated, elitist industry.

1:01
And the one thing that no one ever helped me with was what to wear to work.

1:08
It was the thing that I felt very much judged on, particularly as a woman.

1:12
But I think that that kind of all genders might experience that anyway with what they wear to work is the one thing that you have to do every day.

1:19
And it's the one thing also that can build your brand or can actually, you know, destroy your credibility, which is terrible.

1:26
I know people don't want to hear that and we don't like to think of ourselves as superficial, but we judge people in seconds and very much based on what they're wearing.

1:37
As I was kind of using my wardrobe as a branding tool.

1:41
And that's not to say that I was always very confident in what I wore.

1:44
I've had a very tumultuous relationship with myself and my wardrobe, so I get it from a very emotional perspective too.

1:50
I thought women in leadership started to ask me to help them with what to wear because this is the one thing that no one is talking about when it comes to business.

2:01
And I realised that there's this real gap in the market because we see style as very frivolous and silly.

2:09
And yeah, it really does matter in a business context.

2:13
Now that's interesting.

2:14
So your wardrobe, you think it really makes a difference in how you're perceived in business?

2:19
Yeah, it matters in two different ways.

2:21
The first way is how you think of yourself.

2:23
There is something called enclothed cognition, which is the psychological term for what we wear impacting how we behave.

2:30
So if you are wearing something that makes you feel really productive and confident and like a leader, you will then take on the characteristics of a productive, confident leader.

2:41
And that will then you towards your goals.

2:43
So the way that you see yourself is the most important thing, but the way that other people perceive you is also very important.

2:50
And particularly for women, I think there's this whole good girl complex that we have where we think if I just work really, really hard and I just put my head down and I don't say anything and I say it was a team effort on this project and do all of the pastoral care and I'm nice to everybody, then one day I'll get promoted.

3:09
And business doesn't work like that.

3:11
Especially in 2025 when personal brand is huge currency and it's going to matter more and more and more.

3:19
And your employer is looking for someone at a senior level who is capable of going out there, talking on stages, talking to the media, confident in situations in front of the public.

3:30
So of course, what you wear matters because you are a representation of their company and they want to know that you are capable of handling whatever situation that they're going to put you in.

3:45
Interesting.

3:45
And to talk about power dressing, then can I just use an example?

3:50
So I'm going to go to Robin Wright from the TV show House of Cards.

3:55
Have you seen it?

3:56
Yeah.

3:56
OK, Right.

3:57
So for those who haven't seen it, so she plays a character called Claire Underwood.

4:01
So she she plays the first lady, and then she eventually becomes the president of the USA.

4:08
And you can actually see her wardrobe transition, I think, because when she becomes the US president, I see her wearing more blacks, olive greens, and presidential Blues.

4:20
So Samantha, I have to ask, how do you dress in a way that makes you feel powerful?

4:25
It depends on your idea of what powerful dressing is, the symbolism that you have for your clothes.

4:33
Because when an item has a specific symbolic reference to you, you will behave to the level of that item.

4:40
As an example, they did a study with students where they asked them to wear T-shirts with superhero emblems on the front and they found that when when the students were wearing the T-shirts, they thought of themselves as stronger and that they would be able to lift heavier items than when they weren't wearing the T-shirt.

5:00
So it's literally like you're giving yourself a sense of power through what you wear.

5:04
So the symbolism of an item is really important and what it means to you and also what it means in the context of the business that you're in, because different industries have different levels of dress.

5:15
If you are someone who is working in finance or law, the level of dress is different than if you are working in a creative industry or a startup.

5:25
And it's kind of being mindful of those two things.

5:28
But in terms of leadership, we do perceive certain colours and certain styles as saying leadership more than others.

5:35
As an example, blue is very much a colour that we associate with leadership and strength and authority.

5:44
So that is why when you're thinking of branding and how to brand yourself, colour is really important.

5:49
How do you want people to perceive you?

5:51
So it's in the colours of the items and in the items that you choose.

5:54
As an example, today I am wearing a shirt and a tie, which is symbolically very much business, right?

6:00
But I'm wearing a pink shirt and a pink tie and we associate pink with nurturing and compassion.

6:06
So what I am saying with this outfit today is I am someone who knows business but I am going to help you in a very nurturing and compassionate way.

6:14
I do love your outfit.

6:15
I did say before we hit record how I love Samantha's outfit.

6:19
Umm with those?

6:20
What about since 2020 people have been working from home?

6:24
Roles are more hybrid now.

6:26
So would you say the same for those people working from home?

6:30
I mean a lot of people wear tracksuit buttons or something like even wear PJ's.

6:35
Does it actually make a difference what you wear when you're working from home?

6:40
It makes such a big difference.

6:42
This is a really unpopular, popular thing to say because on LinkedIn and spaces that we're in, it seems really cool to say I'm wearing my pyjamas and I made £10,000 today and no one cares what I wear.

6:55
Actually, that's not the truth.

6:56
Generally, when people are able to do that, they are people who have a lot of privilege.

7:00
Someone that people often reference to me when they're talking about, they don't care about what they wear or they wear their pyjamas at home is Steve Jobs.

7:08
Because they'll say, well, Steve Jobs didn't care about what he wore.

7:11
He wore the same thing every day.

7:13
And he was a billionaire.

7:14
Yeah, he was a genius, genius billionaire, hence why he was able to wear whatever he wanted.

7:20
But also, he's not an example of someone who didn't care about what he wore.

7:24
He's an example of someone who did.

7:26
He spent a lot of time and effort developing the Steve Jobs look because he understood that choosing what to wear is an additional cognitive load that he didn't want on his plate anymore.

7:36
So when we use the example of that person, we were actually getting a bit twisted because he did care.

7:42
And another example that people often used to me is Alex Hormozi, who is a mentor and inspirational speaker, and he ran a very successful gym company.

7:53
And they'll say, but he wears a vest and a check shirt.

7:56
Yeah, he does for branding.

7:57
But when he's in a business meeting or when he's at the White House or when he's at a black tie event, he is dressing to the level of that event.

8:05
So there is privilege and there is context, which people don't seem to put into the situation that they're describing.

8:13
What you wear from home to what you wear to work at home really does matter because what you think of yourself is the most important thing.

8:20
So if you are on a Zoom call and at the top half you're wearing a shirt that that's fine, But then underneath that you're in your pants or your pyjamas.

8:29
You are feeling very disconnected because you have peripheral vision.

8:33
So you can see yourself on the screen, but you can see everything else going on around you and what you're wearing.

8:38
And it makes you feel like a bit of an imposter because you aren't actually dressed to the level of how you're trying to represent yourself.

8:46
And that is a problem because then that means that you won't advocate for yourself in the way that you could.

8:51
You won't speak up in the way that you should.

8:53
You won't put your ideas forward, you won't believe in yourself as much because you have this idea of yourself that is very different than the idea of yourself you are portraying to the wider world.

9:04
OK, if women wanted to dress with confidence and authority, You mentioned blue before.

9:11
Should we all go out and buy a blue suit?

9:13
Let's do it.

9:14
Let's be the blue suit brigade.

9:16
I think it's, it's really important with style that we get away from the idea of rules like you should dress like this.

9:24
You should dress like that, putting women and men and everyone into boxes of how they should look and behave.

9:31
And one thing that kind of frustrates me a little bit about the styling industry is that there are these checklists.

9:37
You see them all the time on social media.

9:39
Here's a checklist of items that you must have in your wardrobe.

9:43
But actually that doesn't work because most of those lists are based on what is called a classic style personality.

9:50
And most people that I work with do not have a singular classic style personality.

9:55
We are multifaceted, nuanced people.

9:58
We require different things from our wardrobes.

10:01
And what might be a foundational piece for you is very different to a foundational piece than someone else would have in their wardrobe.

10:08
So it's really important that the first part of what we do is we look at who you are and what you need and the context in which you're working, and then we can work out from there what your staples are in your wardrobe as opposed to trying to fit you into a box.

10:23
And this is a really big and deep and complex conversation, especially for women, because women are held to a very different standard than men.

10:32
And also they have all of these rules that they're supposed to follow.

10:35
And we call their bodies things like pears and apple and brick.

10:39
I've even in actually in the noughties, Trinny and Susannah were calling women's bodies stuff like brick.

10:45
And I have a client who very much held that in her head that she is a brick.

10:49
I mean, what do you think that does to someone's confidence when that's what they're told their body shape is?

10:54
It's just wild.

10:55
It's wild and it's really disempowering because when you open your wardrobe, there are things then that don't fit.

11:02
There is stuff in there that reminds you of an old version of you.

11:05
There's stuff in there that you bought for this one day version of you who you thought that you would one day become, that you haven't become is totally disempowering.

11:14
That then means that you put your clothes on and they are clothes that will do.

11:17
They're not things that you actually really love and make you feel fantastic.

11:21
Then you go into your meeting and you don't the speaker, you don't say the thing, you don't ask for the sale because you are wearing clothes that say I'm a fraud or I'm not good enough.

11:33
You mentioned classic personality, so I just wanted to touch on style personalities for anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about because I think it's really the first stage is to really understand your own style personality.

11:48
Then you can choose the clothes that you will wear.

11:51
So can you just explain to our listeners of what the style personalities are in styling?

11:58
There is no set amount of rules or names for things, but generally there are four agreed upon style personalities and they are classic, natural, expressive, and romantic.

12:13
And each of these kind of speak to a different type of person.

12:16
So if you think of a classic style personality, it would very much be Audrey Hepburn.

12:21
It's timeless.

12:22
And when I say timeless, I don't mean that an item from 1980 will never date because you're wearing a blazer.

12:30
As an example, a blazer from 1984 will look very different from a blazer from 1994 will look very different from a blazer from 2024.

12:40
So classic timeless pieces, they still do need to be updated.

12:46
Then we have natural relaxed, which if I'm thinking in terms of someone's style would be Jennifer Aniston.

12:52
She is very well polished and well groomed.

12:55
The things she wears are quite paired back and more relaxed and they are on the side of classic.

13:00
Then if we think about expressive, that would be someone like Rihanna because she is quite bold and she communicates who she is through what she wears.

13:10
And then romantic could either be quite princessy, so Jackie, Jackie O or Grace Kelly.

13:16
And it could also be very bohemian, like Florence Welsh from Florence the machine.

13:22
So those are kind of the four agreed upon style personalities.

13:27
And it helps you to have an understanding of those so that you are able to look at your wardrobe and see where you are on the scale and mix and match things from those different parts of your personality.

13:38
And we're thinking in terms of items.

13:40
A blazer or jeans would very much be classic, relaxed, natural.

13:44
And something that would be expressive would be a, you know, a big print or something that's got a lot of texture to it.

13:53
And you could merge those two things in one item.

13:55
If you're a classic expressive, you could have, for example, a leopard print blazer because the blazer is classic and expressive.

14:04
So that is how it it works to help you to work out who you are.

14:08
Essentially as all styling is, it's working out who you are.

14:11
I'm really leaning into that style always works best and it's representative of you and not fighting against yourself.

14:19
Yes.

14:19
So when it comes to women in their 40s and 50s, should we actually be following fashion or should we just look at our style personalities and and use that as a guide?

14:30
This is a really interesting question and it's something thing that I think about a lot because on the one hand, it's really important that we are more considerate with our choices when it comes to clothing.

14:44
We know that we have far too many clothes on the planet right now.

14:48
We have enough clothing for the next 6 generations.

14:51
There is no over there.

14:52
There is only here.

14:53
So when we are getting rid of stuff and we think it's going over there somewhere, it's never going over there because everywhere is here.

15:01
And we know that a lot of the clothing that we have, because the quality has decreased, will go off to mount a mountain in Chile that you can see from space.

15:10
There are huge rag piles off the coast of Africa.

15:14
We have a huge problem.

15:15
So on the one hand, I think it's really important that we make use of what we have.

15:20
We buy the best quality that we can and that we are looking at things that stand the test of time.

15:24
On the other hand, there are studies that show that if you are perceived as someone who has a fresh, modern style, you are perceived as being doing better at your job.

15:34
If you liken this to websites, which is often an analogy that I use for clients to explain this, if you look at a website from 2014 and you look at a website from 2024, you will see the difference.

15:47
You'll see the difference in not only the style, the tone, the content, the quality, just everything will will look a bit different and the one from the most recent years will look a lot more fresh.

15:59
So that's what you want to do with your style, but it doesn't mean go out and buy lots of new.

16:04
It just means reusing what you have in different ways.

16:07
As an example, I'm wearing a tie today because this is this is not a new tie.

16:11
This is not it actually belongs to my husband.

16:13
I've just been seeing wardrobe.

16:15
It's old, but this is a fresh update to style for 2025.

16:21
So it's about using what you have in new and fresh ways to keep your look updated.

16:27
What about the role of accessories?

16:29
I've noticed you've got a big hoop earrings.

16:31
Should women be using accessories effectively?

16:35
Accessories are a great way of updating your style and they're also a really good psychological anchor for the mood that you are in.

16:43
So I will often use my earrings to associate with work if I if I've got my big earrings in, I know guys go time and we're getting to work.

16:53
So they're a really good way of giving your that little marker that you are changing modes.

16:58
And this is particularly helpful when you do work from home because if you're working in an environment where you sleep, you eat, you relax, and also you have to be in serious boss mode.

17:10
How are you going to differentiate the different types of person that you need to be in one day?

17:16
You can do that with accessories.

17:18
Accessories are also really great as something to help people remember you.

17:22
If you are on a meeting, there are a lot of people on the meeting.

17:25
You wear some an interesting accessory.

17:27
People are going to remember you.

17:29
They will.

17:29
So there are great tools.

17:32
They're a great tool for branding and business and ultimately money making.

17:36
A lot of people think it's strange that I talk about wardrobe in the context of making money, but this is what I mean.

17:42
Because if you are memorable to the right people, they are going to work with you.

17:46
They're going to remember you.

17:47
And in an age where everyone is so busy, there is so much content, LinkedIn is so noisy, this is priceless.

17:55
This is a priceless thing that you can use that you already have.

17:58
A lot of people have accessories that they're just not wearing now dressing for your body shape.

18:04
Can you share any tips on how to dress for the various body shapes?

18:09
So should we be mindful of that?

18:11
I again wrestle with this one quite a lot.

18:13
I think that when you have a knowledge gap about this stuff, that can lead to a confidence gap, which can then impact you in business.

18:22
So having an understanding of this stuff can help you because then you feel more confident in the decisions that you're making.

18:28
But one of my clients and I were having this conversation yesterday about the word flattering because she the shape that she has, she looks really great in a crop jacket because it hits at the most narrow part of her waist.

18:40
And then she has nice hips.

18:42
So it's got that kind of defined hourglass shape.

18:45
But she was wearing a longer line jacket and she really liked it.

18:48
And she said to me that she was wrestling with this idea of what she wears and likes.

18:53
Doesn't have to be flattering.

18:55
It doesn't.

18:56
It's we're really entangled with this idea of the shape that we should be rather than enjoying the shape that we are.

19:03
So the best thing you can do, I believe, is dress to your shape.

19:08
People always look best when they're dressing to what's naturally going on for them.

19:11
So in terms of body shape, the way to look at it is in terms of somatotype.

19:17
And there are three somatotypes.

19:18
There is Mesomorph, there is ectomorph, mesomorph and endomorph.

19:23
So the one end of the scale is ectomorph, and that is someone who is more angular and perhaps more petite.

19:30
As an example, Keira Knightley.

19:32
Keira Knightley looks incredible in angular patterns and prints very structured pieces because it is aligning with what's naturally going on for her.

19:39
And mesomorph is someone who has more muscle and a bit of a stronger bone structure than an ectomorph.

19:47
Someone, again like Jennifer Aniston, I would describe as a mesomorph and then an endomorph is someone with a bit more curve.

19:55
And those type of people look really great in curves, curved patterns and prints.

19:59
So it depends what's going on for you.

20:01
Naturally, if you are someone who has very sleek, umm hair and you have very angular features and you are petite, you are going to look amazing in things that align with that.

20:12
If you are someone who has a lot of textures, you have very curly or WAVY hair, you have a lot of curve to you, you have a stronger bone structure.

20:19
You're going to look great in things that align with that.

20:23
So stronger pieces, bigger pieces.

20:25
I'm an endomorph, so things with a lot of kind of texture or bigger items, they're working with what's going on for me naturally.

20:34
Whereas if I wear something that is smaller and daintier, it's a juxtaposition.

20:38
It's a bit jarring, which you can use to your advantage as well, because then it's interesting, right?

20:44
You're, you're creating an interesting point in your look by wearing something that goes against what is naturally happening for you.

20:51
So in terms of the body shapes themselves, I don't use the words apple, pear, banana, whatever else that we're saying about women's bodies in particular, because we don't do this to men's bodies.

21:03
We only seem to do this to women's bodies.

21:05
I just use them in context to help my clients understand what I'm talking about.

21:09
So I use bigger on the top, bigger in the middle, bigger on the bottom and then straight kind of straight up and down.

21:15
And also then you could have like an S or an X shape which is more of an hourglass.

21:21
So I use those and essentially if you are bigger on the top and you want to balance it out, you'd wear something bigger on the bottom and if you are bigger on the bottom, you wanted to balance that out.

21:32
You could wear something that's bigger on the top.

21:34
But it really is personal preference.

21:35
I wear stuff that's out of my quote unquote, body shape and colour analysis all of the time and I don't care.

21:43
I just got to the point where whatever I want to wear, when I want to wear it, there's a starting point.

21:49
It is useful to have those as a reference so that you you kind of know what you're doing.

21:56
Yes, but listeners out there, I am 5 ft, size 6 to 8, I'm very petite.

22:02
So for me, I know there are certain clothes that I should avoid.

22:06
I tend to avoid loose maxi dresses because they just look like a tent on me and they did just completely drown me.

22:13
So Speaking of professional wear, are there any common mistakes that you see that women make when they're choosing their professional wear? denim.

22:24
Denim is denim, but denim, yeah, denim is huge.

22:28
The whole idea of dress codes is so confusing.

22:32
And what irritates me very much is that when I have this conversation with businesses, often the people who have written the dress code do not understand what they mean by the dress code.

22:42
So they'll just say smart casual.

22:44
And then I will ask, what does smart casual mean to you?

22:47
Well, I don't know.

22:48
I don't know.

22:48
And I've actually seen some on some interview literature that said use your common sense.

22:54
It's what they were saying to people.

22:55
Use your common sense.

22:56
But of course, there is not really only anything such as common sense, because someone's idea of what to wear to work is very different than someone else's idea.

23:04
Not taking into account privilege, culture, all of that.

23:08
We need to give people much clearer guidance.

23:11
But something that always comes up is denim.

23:13
Because in the actual levels of dress, if we're talking about the rules, as it were, anything that is less than a dark wash denim is just casual.

23:25
Like wash denim, especially a denim that has got distressing or rips or holes or any kind of detail is casual.

23:31
It is not smart casual.

23:33
But of course, I think the onus is very much on companies communicating to people what it is that they actually want them to wear.

23:42
Because I have a lot of conversations with managers complaining and saying someone turned up to work today and she was wearing hot pants and someone else turned up and they looked like they were wearing their pyjamas.

23:52
And I'll say to them, don't you think that you perhaps should communicate what it is that you want from them if you want something different because they don't know what they're doing wrong if you aren't telling them.

24:02
And they'll say, I'm scared to have this conversation with them because I don't understand it.

24:07
And there's no support for me from the company that we work for.

24:10
So it's a huge, it's a huge problem even five years on from the pandemic.

24:16
And I think that companies just aren't doing enough right now to address it or to help people with it.

24:23
I also find there's a big discrepancy between age groups as well.

24:27
One of my clients is in the gaming industry.

24:29
So I find people, the boomers and the Generation X, if we go to an exhibition, they'll be suited ties.

24:35
And then there's the millennials and people in their 20s, and they just come to exhibitions in jeans and trainers, but with a jacket.

24:43
I mean, I mean, some will wear dark denim, but but not all of them will.

24:47
So I think with the different generations, there seems to be different ideas of what is acceptable for workwear as well.

24:56
Do you find that?

24:57
Absolutely.

24:58
And in one way, I really do applaud and love Gen Z and younger generations, their confidence and their audacity.

25:06
I have younger in laws.

25:08
They're teenage girls and I look at them and I'm like, I love your confidence.

25:11
I love the fact that I've been involved in helping you get your confidence.

25:15
But then they'll say something to me about how terrible my outfit is or how old I am.

25:19
And then I think how dare you?

25:23
But yes, there is.

25:24
There is.

25:24
But again, companies aren't doing enough to communicate with these different people.

25:29
You have these different generations working the same office of someone who's in their 60s and someone who's in their very early 20s in the same space.

25:36
They have very different points of reference, very different experiences of the world.

25:42
We need to be doing more to help them to create an environment where they feel comfortable and that they are able to fully express themselves in a way that is in line with the company policy.

25:55
Yeah, definitely.

25:56
So is it possible to build a stylish wardrobe, professional wardrobe, without breaking the bank?

26:02
Absolutely.

26:03
I was with a client this last week who has a very successful business and isn't buying any new clothes this year and we created over 12 new outfits from what she already has in her wardrobe.

26:16
So it's just a case of looking at things differently.

26:18
You will have hundreds of outfits in your wardrobe right now.

26:22
You just cannot see them.

26:24
You've just never taking everything out, played dress up with it, looked at how you could match different things together, and that's because your brain always wants to make everything very easy for you.

26:35
So of course, when you open your wardrobe, you see the same fibre items and you kind of wear them in the same way and that's that.

26:43
But actually there are a lot of different things that you could be wearing in your wardrobe.

26:48
You don't need to necessarily go out and buy new clothes.

26:51
The first thing that you should always do is go through what you've already got and just try wearing it in different ways so it doesn't even need to cost you any money at all.

26:59
You just need to style things differently.

27:01
But then if you are looking to invest in things in your wardrobe, it's about buying the best quality you can for the budget that you have.

27:09
And it's not about buying lots of new things.

27:12
It's just one or two key pieces that you can mix and match with everything else to make your wardrobe work better.

27:17
Great advice.

27:18
Do you have any final words of wisdom?

27:21
I think you should go into your wardrobe today and take out one thing that you don't love and you don't wear and get rid of it.

27:30
Just what?

27:31
Just one thing.

27:32
Just start with one thing.

27:33
Just one thing you don't love and you don't wear because all of the time that you have that thing in your wardrobe, you are in some way holding yourself back.

27:41
Because that thing is not just a piece of clothing, it's the physical representation of a fear or a belief that you have that is stopping you from getting whatever it is that you want to get or where you want to go.

27:55
So that's where I would start.

27:56
And also really thinking about your wardrobe, not in terms of just clothes or silly or frivolous, but as a business tool.

28:03
Because when you think of it as a business tool, you will put the time in your diary to go through your wardrobe.

28:09
Create yourself lots of new on brand outfits that speak to your ideal client or your next level in business or the promotion that you want to get and that is going to help you make more money in the future.

28:20
So it's just as important as those days that you earmark for doing your admin or those days that you earmark for writing content.

28:28
This is as much a business necessity as any of that.

28:32
Samantha, I'm going to ask you a bonus question now.

28:35
I'm asking all my guests in Season 2.

28:37
What is a small daily habit that you have had that has a big impact on your success?

28:42
Mine's nothing to do with clothes, though.

28:44
I have clothes one, obviously.

28:45
Get dressed would be the obvious one.

28:47
Get fully dressed is what I mean.

28:50
That is actually staying hydrated, which sounds so simple and yet people aren't doing it.

28:56
And I always think to myself, do I want to work with someone who is so exhausted or burned out that they can't even keep themselves hydrated?

29:04
No, of course not.

29:05
Keep yourself hydrated.

29:07
It changes everything.

29:08
It changes everything.

29:09
Just having enough water is that it's as simple as that.

29:13
Thank you, It's so true.

29:14
I always have a water with me.

29:16
So I'm and I'm, I'll admit it, it's easy to get stuck in a style rut, isn't it?

29:21
If if something's worked for you in your 20s and then women have had children and they think about that the wardrobe again and updating the style, people might use the same makeup that they wore in their 20s and they have the same hairstyle.

29:33
And I guess that's where you can come in.

29:35
So if people wanted to ask you any questions, what is the best way for them to get in touch?

29:41
Absolutely, I would love to help.

29:43
And you're right, it's such a nice part of our identity and our relationships with our wardrobes are so emotional as well as physical.

29:51
And of course, there is transition and we're always evolving.

29:53
And so our wardrobe should be as well.

29:55
I'm mostly on LinkedIn.

29:57
You can search the style editor and I will come up on there.

30:01
And yeah, just come into my DMS and let's have a chat about all things wardrobe.

30:07
Thank you.

30:07
Thank you so much for your time today, Samantha.

30:10
I thoroughly enjoyed chat and I'm sure our listeners will do as well.

30:13
Thank you.

30:14
Thank you.

30:14
Bye.

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