The Salt Sessions

Is your website working? | The science behind high-performing websites

In this episode, we’re diving into the science behind high-performing websites.

I’m joined by Louisa Dunbar, founder of Orange Grove, a UX agency that takes a behavioural science approach to web design. 

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We talk about how first impressions really do matter - especially in those crucial first three seconds. We get into the nitty-gritty of what actually drives conversions beyond just having a slick design and explore the key metrics you should be tracking to measure success.

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If you’ve ever questioned whether your website is really working for you, this episode is packed with insights to help drive more conversions. Listen now and start making your website work harder for your business!

Transcript

0:15
Hi, I'm Bev Salt and welcome back to the Salt Sessions Season 2.

0:19
It's so good to be back.

0:21
Today.

0:22
I have Louisa Dunbar from her agency Orange Grove joining me.

0:27
What made her different to other web developers and agencies is that I found that she specialises in behavioural science to create high performing websites.

0:38
I'm I'm going to ask all my guests to introduce themselves because I'm sure they can do a better job than I would.

0:43
So in 30 seconds, please can you introduce yourself to our audience?

0:49
Sure.

0:49
Yeah.

0:50
So I'm Louisa Dunbar, as you said.

0:52
I run, as you said, a website consultancy called Orange Grove.

0:56
And we, having gone from being, yeah, web agency, we are now specialising in turning clicks into conversions into customers through this behavioural science informed programme and audits.

1:09
And it's all about, yeah, helping digital marketing teams to reach their growth targets a lot faster, but also to have much more fun doing so because let's face it, behavioural science is quite fun and interesting.

1:20
Thank you for that.

1:22
And with B2B companies, there's no point in spending thousands of pounds on a website if it's not driving many conversions and if there's low engagement.

1:31
So the thing I'd like to know, I've been looking at statistics for what is actually a good conversion rate for a B2B website.

1:38
Generally, I'm getting a figure averaging between 2 to 4%.

1:44
In your experience, does that seem about, right?

1:47
Yeah, it's always a difficult question that you know there.

1:51
Although B2B is an industry in its own right, there's such a vast different array of companies that fit within that industry.

2:01
And within that there are different types of, could be software as a service, it could be its service business.

2:07
So there's lots of different conversion rates standards, I suppose, you know, and we, if we take a, a different industry, for example, ecommerce retail, we've had clients who you know, that a very good conversion rate for them is 2%.

2:27
Whereas we have another client who we increase their conversion rate from within that same industry from 8% to 10%.

2:35
So there is no standard.

2:37
I think it, it, it's fair to, to assume and you've just got to work out, you know, looking back at your averages and determining whether that's good enough for you.

2:46
If it's not good enough for you, you're not getting, you know, the, the growth rate that you're after, then take that on its own merit and try not to compare too much and to competitors or other industry.

2:58
Look to analyse what can be done about your conversion rate and make it the the best it can be.

3:04
Yes, and, and how can people do that through their analytics data?

3:09
How they can, yeah, how they can check out their conversion rate.

3:12
It's all about having the correct data set up at the tracking through Google Analytics.

3:17
There are other platforms, but yeah, that's still the most popular one.

3:20
And yeah, you know, whether your your main conversion is gathering enquiries to a form, make sure you've got your events set up to track that accurately, or whether it's, you know, downloads you're tracking or, or newsletter signups.

3:36
You know, it really does depend on, on the type of business or, you know, if it's a software as a service one, then it's signups, isn't it?

3:44
So yeah, it really, really does depend.

3:46
Yeah, it's very important to get that data tracking set up.

3:50
As boring as many people might find it, sadly, it is imperative if you want to, you know, take growth seriously and measure, you know, your return on investments as well.

4:02
Definitely.

4:03
And they, they're saying that first impressions matter.

4:07
So in your opinion, what elements of design create an impact within the first few seconds of a user landing on your website?

4:14
Yeah.

4:14
I love this subject because if you've lost somebody when they first come onto your website, you know, if you haven't instantly grabbed their attention, then that's it.

4:22
You know that it is so important.

4:24
And it's the hero effect essentially, which is that we, we have a gut feel about a website when we, when we first go on to it.

4:33
And that opinion is made-up of hundreds of biases that we collect over our lifetime.

4:38
But there are definitely things that you can do to to increase the chances of capturing those people and making a good first impression.

4:46
And the things that that go into that are, you know, the design, yes, but it doesn't have to be a fancy design.

4:53
All it has to do is instil trust in the user.

4:56
If they come onto the website and they feel OK, this feels genuine.

5:01
This feels like not a spammy or as a spammy website or a spammy company or a very small business just trying their luck, you know, there's lots of things going through people's minds and as long as you can kind of prove your worth by having a website that is is just it just looks professional.

5:16
So a logo that it doesn't need to be fancy, just looks like it's done professionally, not in Word.

5:22
And yeah, a clean, clear design, something that's easily digested so you can take it all in really easily.

5:31
There's nothing that kind of distracting on it.

5:34
And so that's kind of an overarching thing.

5:36
The other aspect is to be very clear with your messaging.

5:41
So they need to know are they in the right place?

5:43
And the most important thing with that is just saying exactly what you do.

5:47
So what is it that you do?

5:49
So for example, on on our homepage, we've got a little box of conversion optimization and then we go off and you know, elaborate on that a little bit more in our value proposition.

6:01
So I would very much say that the design is key, having a really clear value proposition which says exactly what you do, but also how you do it and why it's important.

6:13
And you can have key messages of resonance in there as well.

6:16
But yeah, it's about capturing them through that messaging.

6:20
And that messaging can be hopefully summed up in some way with a graphic.

6:25
So this is all that hero area we're talking about here.

6:28
So they'll have a graphic to accompany it or a photo and that photo needs to be or that graphic needs to really be relevant to what it the thing that you are selling or you have.

6:40
Would you recommend stock imagery or would you always advise people to to use their own photography?

6:46
Yeah, I would always recommend people use their own photography.

6:49
People people know stock photography.

6:52
They can sense it a mile off.

6:53
So where possible use real photography.

6:57
If if it's a matter of, oh, we can't get this website live without stock photography, just put the stock photography up there.

7:05
OK.

7:05
So there's, there's obviously good beats perfect in a lot of ways.

7:08
But it's important to have that the ultimate aim to get your own photography because stock photography, although it looks professional, it will never perfectly capture what it is you do.

7:22
Yeah, yeah.

7:23
So that that's, that's the important aspect to remember there.

7:26
Yeah.

7:26
And for B2B, I guess people like to see who they'll be working with.

7:30
So they'd like to see you because it's all about connecting with people on an emotional level.

7:36
And so people do like to put a face to the name. On your own site.

7:39
You refer to smart website.

7:42
Can you tell us a bit more about what is a smart website?

7:45
So I've been around for a while in this industry and over the, you know, we've worked with hundreds of businesses and have seen basically over that time what works, what doesn't work.

7:56
And I was reflecting on it thinking, OK, what are the common denominators that really stand out across all these websites that are getting the best results?

8:05
And of course, you know, every marketer loves a framework.

8:08
So put together a framework that encompassed that.

8:11
So and, and it spells out smart, which is quite handy.

8:15
So, yeah, so this represents the smart, our smart framework and represents the elements that go into a website that is a high performance, that is a high performance website and we call those a smart, smart website.

8:29
So the ones that get it all right are smart websites, smart sites and to go through that, that framework.

8:35
So we've got S stimulate move, M attracts R reassure, T timely.

8:43
So stimulate essentially is about that building that connection, having resonance with your audience.

8:48
So that's a lot about the messaging, making sure that's right, the imagery that supports that and how that all comes together.

8:56
There's a lot of elements.

8:57
I don't think we've probably got time to go through this in a too much detail move.

9:01
That's all about how you motivate the user to take action.

9:05
So how you get them from, you know, the home page or the landing page and where you know, their next logical steps are in that journey to get them to that ultimate goal of conversion.

9:15
So yeah.

9:16
And how you do that might be through nudges, though it might be through.

9:19
Yeah, just a really well planned user journey attract.

9:22
This is about how we, what we mentioned earlier in terms of that hero effect, it's about creating a design and how we can make it really appeal to the audience because there are going to be people who fit into groups.

9:36
Your target audience are in their groups, but they are often going to have a similar kind of background.

9:41
But they're going to their personalities may be similar.

9:43
They're going to be drawn to things.

9:46
They're very similar things.

9:47
And it's also about being mindful of other background, you know, elements such as where they grew up in the world, cultural influences that might help, that might lead them to such as a colour that might resonate more with them than it might do someone, someone in another country.

10:03
So it's about kind of bringing together all those ideas to create a website that is going to look good in their eyes.

10:11
And it's all about the target audience in their eyes, not about the stakeholders.

10:14
So that's really important to to remember, R for Reassure.

10:18
That's about creating a website that builds that trust when when somebody visits it, they can trust that you're going to do what you're saying you're going to do.

10:28
And yeah, you can do that through things like social proof, through testimonials, case studies, accreditations, reviews, you know, whatever it is.

10:36
There's loads of tools in the arsenal that kind of do that.

10:40
So, yeah, those are the main things.

10:42
And the last one time timely, there's a little bit more nuanced.

10:47
There's there's the element of not wasting the user's time and just getting to the point stop, you know, yabbering on about the pages and pages about your, your thing, your service, your whatever it is.

10:59
Yeah.

10:59
So yeah, just be respectful of their time and help them go through that process of making a decision, decision in a really timely manner.

11:07
What you don't want is them to suddenly go from this hot cognitive state where they are ready to buy.

11:13
They want something to suddenly over analysing it because you've given them way too much information.

11:18
And then suddenly them going, OK, I need to think about this a little bit more.

11:22
And then they go off the site and probably don't come back again.

11:24
So it's about trying to make sure that you keep them in that hot cognitive state until they have converted one way or another, whether that's the very least getting their sign up and their details somehow or actually checking out or completing that enquiry form.

11:38
So that's the smart site criteria, top level.

11:42
Interesting.

11:43
And there are a lot of tools that people have nowadays on websites such as chat bots and pop up banners.

11:50
I mean, I personally find them annoying.

11:52
Sign up to our webinar. Do these things actually work in driving conversions?

11:58
Well, yes, but also no.

12:00
Of course they can do.

12:01
Yeah, you know, we've definitely seen the results they can have when they are done right.

12:06
But if they are so for example, pop ups, if they are, you know, introduced or they come up at the wrong point in the user's journey, it can have the absolute opposite effect.

12:17
I think my biggest bugbear is, yeah, going onto a website and never been on it before.

12:23
And then the first few seconds this pop up appears and says, you know, sign up for our newsletter.

12:28
I don't even know what you do.

12:29
I don't even know whether or not this thing is right for me.

12:34
Let me make that decision first.

12:35
And then definitely I would love 20% off, but I'm not going to give you my, my precious e-mail address and so you can spam me until I'm ready.

12:47
So yeah, it just needs to be done right.

12:50
And obviously with that, I think a really good understanding of the user journey and their motivations at each point in that journey is absolutely vital to be able to have an informed strategy around those kind of things.

13:06
It's all very well, some people just, oh, just stick it up on the site and we can test afterwards.

13:10
But I do think, you know, along that way you'll probably lose a lot of, a lot of visitors.

13:17
So definitely go in with an informed approach first and then test, test it.

13:24
There may be some split testing involved as well and just keep an eye on those results and the key metrics.

13:32
Now that you've mentioned metrics, what metrics should the marketeers be measuring?

13:37
Yeah, so I think we've covered conversion rate top one, 100%.

13:41
If that's the only one you can do that's that's better than nothing are the really important ones that can tell us a lot about, you know, how your websites doing are things like cost per acquisition.

13:53
So how much are you spending to acquire a new customer?

13:56
And if that cost is is high, then we really, you know, should be looking at what why is it so high?

14:04
Why do you have to pay so much to get these this acquisition?

14:07
It should be a low cost per acquisition.

14:10
So there's lots you can look at on the website from that point of view.

14:13
Average order value may or may not be as applicable for B2B businesses, but there there certainly are e-commerce stores for B2B.

14:22
So if that's the case, then yeah, absolutely looking at a high average order value.

14:27
And if it's low then obviously there's there's definitely things to look at such as, you know, upselling, cross selling and what you can do to to enhance that.

14:36
The other one is customer acquisition cost.

14:38
This is sort of looking at the whole thing.

14:40
So it's kind of similar to cost per acquisition, but it's really looking at that overall cost and ensuring during it's, it's as low as possible and what can be done on the website to enhance that.

14:50
And then we're looking at customer lifetime value.

14:53
What we don't want is a one and done kind of customer because you want them to stay low, you want them to keep coming back.

14:59
And if that journey, if the website is a part of that repeat journey, then it we we need to look at how we can create a really customer base and so that they do keep coming back and staying interested and, and following the brands and, and interacting with them on the website.

15:15
There's much which is possible.

15:17
So those are the key metrics I would say as you've mentioned about a cost per acquisition for customers.

15:24
Now what are your thoughts on landing pages?

15:27
Because when, when companies decide to use PPC ads, they might come up with a one page landing page.

15:34
So when someone goes through to that, they'll only see one page and then they won't necessarily see the rest the rest of your website.

15:40
So what are your thoughts around creating special landing pages?

15:46
Well, I know they they work in some instances.

15:49
However, I think that a customer who can have a nose around a website and get a proper feel for what you do is one that will probably convert much easier just to give the listeners I guess a bit of a background.

16:09
So the, the idea is when you go onto a landing page, which is just a one pager, not on the main site, it's so that it's focused and you want to capture them and keep them on the page until they convert.

16:19
You don't want to, you want to take away the distractions.

16:21
You don't want them wandering off around the website because then they'll, they'll, they'll not convert on there.

16:26
But on the other hand, there's the the, the other argument against that is that, you know, the ones who they may not, they may need to know that they can trust you a little bit more before they actually do that conversion.

16:40
So unless it's a really you're not asking much of them, it's really kind of low level ask.

16:46
You're not, you know, ask them to buy or invest loads of money on that one pager.

16:50
Then that kind of one pager might be all right.

16:53
If it's really low, just oh, express your interest or whatever.

16:56
But if it's a sign up for something that requires investment, then I would suggest that, yeah, go give them the option of exploring your website, but make it really easy for them to come back to that landing page to complete that conversion.

17:11
You know, I think I think it's, it would be important to test this first through some user testing or even some just low, low spend on that ads to see which works better because it will see depends on loads of variables.

17:25
So, but yeah, no, I do think that from my point of view, if I'm talking about if I'm the user, I do like to do a bit of research before I commit even to just my sharing my e-mail.

17:36
So yeah, I kind of look at it from that point of view and my own experience and then kind of go off the back of that.

17:42
It's and also, you know, referring to the experience we've had in our own conversion optimization.

17:47
Thank you.

17:48
Now Google cookie consent version 2 if people say right, if you don't have consent version 2, then you you'll be dropped off the search engine rankings.

18:00
Do you think that's the case?

18:02
I have to say this is a little bit out of my wheelhouse.

18:04
It's probably more SEO, but yeah, if, if, if Google is pushing for you to do something, it's always recommended to do it.

18:14
Frankly, just cover all bases consent because I'm not a very fan of cookie consent.

18:22
It's it's very damaging to the data that's collected.

18:25
And you know, you, it's, you don't get a true representation of, you know, the people, the amount of people who are visiting your website.

18:34
But if Google tells you to do something, OK, so if our listeners could implement just one thing that we've discussed today, what would you recommend?

18:48
Well, I would, can I say two, I would definitely say make sure you're tracking a conversion rate at the very least.

18:56
Just get that tracking set up.

18:58
And then you know that it's such a fab statistic to refer to and to know and give you a benchmark basically on, on what else you can do to, to improve it.

19:10
But other than that, I would say, you know, get your homepage sorted that you know, the first 3 seconds, somebody being there, make sure they know what you do, you know who you are and try and resonate with them within that as well.

19:25
And just keep it very simple and straightforward.

19:28
It it's a make or a break, But I can't tell you the number of B2B websites that I've been on and just been scratching my head going, you know, 10 minutes later because I have to stick around on it to, to do my research, But I'm going, what do they do?

19:42
Really just in plain language.

19:44
It's the most frustrating thing and I think it's just that businesses are way too close to what they do and they think everybody knows.

19:53
So they can be really vague or they can just talk about an event they're doing that's coming up on that key prime area.

19:59
But yeah, it's you're losing customers, you're losing visitors because of that.

20:03
So yeah, just just get to the point really quick.

20:06
I think that's really good advice because often I go on to sites and you can tell they've been written by a copywriter because they just tell you about the benefits of using them.

20:16
And I'm thinking, OK, great to know about all these benefits, but what is?

20:19
Is it like you do?

20:20
So yeah, be clear on what you actually provide.

20:24
Great.

20:25
Now new for Season 2, I'm going to ask all my guests a bonus question.

20:30
So my question is, what's a small daily habit that you have that has made a big impact on your success?

20:38
Louisa posting on LinkedIn that's not related to websites so much.

20:41
And I'll and I'll give a tip.

20:42
Actually, I have the best ideas for my LinkedIn post in the shower in the morning, take a shower, try and focus on, you know, work or whatever and come up with a good post and then just write it down immediately before you forget it.

20:57
Yeah, brilliant.

20:58
And how often do you post on LinkedIn?

21:01
Oh, getting better.

21:04
I'm aiming for every day.

21:05
It's probably about three or four days a week at the moment.

21:09
That's brilliant.

21:10
That's really good.

21:10
And finally, if you want to get in contact with Louisa, Louisa, can you share where people can find you?

21:16
Yeah, sure.

21:17
Absolutely.

21:17
Well, follow me on LinkedIn, Louisa Dunbar and our website, orangegrove.uk.

21:23
You're more than welcome to drop me a line at any point or is good to connect.

21:27
And I'm writing a book actually, so you might be able to find me on Amazon soon.

21:32
Brilliant.

21:33
Keep an eye out.

21:34
Great.

21:34
And is your what's your book about about high performance websites?

21:37
It is indeed how to achieve a high performance website using behavioural science.

21:41
So the title is still to be confirmed, but we'll be launching that soon.

21:45
So that's due to come out at the end of the year.

21:48
Brilliant.

21:49
Well, good luck with that Louisa, and thank you so much for your time today.

21:53
Thank you so much.

21:54
Thanks.

21:55
Bye bye.